10th February 2025
Written by Rachel Wallace
What initially drew you to the pub industry, and how did you end up in the role of BDM?
I graduated from the University of Manchester in 1983 with a degree in Recreation and Management. In 1986, I was offered an opportunity to join Greenall Whitley in 1986 as a Trainee Area Manager. At the time, I hadn’t considered a career in the pub industry, but it was a fantastic opportunity to join a structured training program, so I decided to pursue it.
I was with Greenall Whitley for 13 years, I progressed from Trainee Area Manager to Regional Manager, eventually overseeing managed house operations across the UK.
What initially drew me to the trade—and what continues to excite me—is the dynamic nature of the industry. No two days are ever the same, and it’s a people-driven business, which I find incredibly rewarding. I enjoy and thrive in an environment where I can collaborate with like-minded individuals, contribute to the success of a business, and constantly challenge myself.
Looking back over 25 years, what are some of the most significant changes you’ve seen in the pub sector?
Looking back over the past 25 years, the pub sector has undergone significant transformation. When I joined in 2000, the industry was already beginning to experience major shifts. In 2003, we saw a change with licensing, and the Licensing Act came into effect in 2005, which amended and revised trading hours for pubs. Then, in 2007, the smoking ban came into effect, and this had a considerable impact on the industry too. One of the most significant challenges, of course, was the impact of the pandemic in 2020. That period marked unprecedented changes, including closures and restrictions and pressure on all pubs’ cash flow.
Personally, joining Robinsons was culturally very different from my previous role at Greenall’s. Learning to adapt to managing a tenanted business from my previous experience in a much larger corporate run PLC Company to a more family-run business. At Robinsons, I reported directly to the Chairman Peter Robinson, and at that time, we had over 400 pubs.
We now operate a diverse estate around 240 pubs. These days we work much more closely with our Pub Partners, working in a more collaborative business relationship. The company has had to adapt, modernise and diversify and these changes have contributed to the sustainability and needs of today’s business.
From your perspective, what makes a pub business successful today, and how has that changed over the years?
For me, the key to success in the pub industry is all about the people. The most successful pubs are run by individuals with the right mix of creativity, vision, hard work and a solid business plan. It's about having the ability to execute that vision while creating the right atmosphere. Successful operators focus on building a strong team, offer training and development, and set high and consistent standards for quality across the business. However, it all starts with having the right person in the right role. We can invest in our pubs and create great facilities but without the right individual leading the way, it simply won’t work - investment in people is fundamental.
What are some of the most rewarding success stories you’ve been a part of in your career?
I’ve been fortunate to be involved in a number of rewarding initiatives throughout my career. When I first joined, I was the Tied Trade Manager, overseeing around 400 pubs. It was a significant responsibility, covering everything from recruitment and training to managing the ties and ensuring compliance across the estate. In 2012, the family entrusted me with a new challenge as Cumbrian Operations Manager. My role involved the day-to-day operation of the Cumbrian Depot and managing a team of circa 40 staff to ensure ongoing support to around 50 pubs within Lancashire and Cumbria.
One of the most rewarding aspects of this role was the opportunity to help to integrate the Robinsons ethos and culture into the business whilst preserving the strong local identity of the Hartley’s, brand, which was deeply rooted in Cumbria. Being able to blend the best of both and see the positive impact it had on staff and customers was incredibly fulfilling.
What would be your top three pieces of advice for someone looking to thrive in the pub business?
I believe that a strong work ethic and a genuine passion for people is important as well as having a sense of humour. Having the right personality is key, as working in the pub industry is a way of life. It’s not like a traditional 9-to-5 job; you're working when most others are socialising, and that requires dedication and commitment.
At the same time, it's important to have sound business acumen. The most successful Pub Partners are those who can execute a business plan and have the flexibility to adapt to meet the needs of their business and their customers. The ability to diversify and think creatively has become more important than ever in today’s industry, and those who can navigate that successfully are the ones who thrive.
What common mistakes do you see new pub owners or managers make, and how can they avoid them?
A common mistake new Pub Partners make is taking on a business without fully understanding it. It takes dedication involvement and funding. Often, people come forward with a business plan from the outside but fail to assess the operation from within or understand their customer base-do your homework and choose the right pub in the right location. Understanding the financials of the business is also fundamental.
Recently I heard a great quote - 'network is net worth,' and it really highlights how important networking in its broader sense has become. As things evolve, to stay on top of social media and how you engage with all stakeholders in your business. Whether you’re networking to recruit staff, communicating with customers, or collaborating with suppliers it’s crucial. Without that network, you're missing out on opportunities and not reaching your full potential.
The way the industry has changed is remarkable, and we’re lucky to work in a trade where every day can be different. One day, I might be managing finances: the next, I’m a listening ear or dealing with personnel issues. It’s a constantly shifting mix of responsibilities, and adaptability is key.
Hospitality touches all our lives in ways we often forget. Whether it provides employment and career opportunities or just a great space to socialise and meet with friends or attend a family function, the pub plays a central role in our communities. It’s something we should all appreciate and promote more.
What do you think sets apart the best pub operators from the rest in terms of collaboration and mutual success?
The best pub operators really stand out because they’re fully committed to the business and have a clear vision. They know how to tap into its potential, and having a solid plan in place is key. The successful ones are well organised, dedicated, and ready to put in the long hours. And, like I said before, having a sense of humour on occasions helps to keep things light and can help you get through the tough times.
In your experience, what are some of the most effective ways a pub can differentiate itself in a competitive market?
In my experience, the key to standing out in a competitive market comes down to quality and consistency and be better than the competition. You need to deliver an exceptional customer experience from start to finish. It begins with kerb appeal—your pub should look inviting and well-maintained from the outside. Inside, the standards should reflect the overall offering from the quality of food and drinks served to the level of service. Great service is essential, and customers also expect good value for their money. However, this isn’t just about price; it’s creating the right environment and about having the right service ethos. In a market where customer needs and expectations are higher than ever then ultimately, to succeed, you need to consistently exceed customer expectations at all levels. Anyone can have a pint at home, but the pub experience must be the full package.
As you look ahead, what excites you about the future of the pub industry?
Well, I guess after nearly 40 years in the trade I should be looking forward to my retirement, but in all seriousness, from a Robinsons perspective, the focus for me has been on adapting and diversifying to the needs of the business and continuing to support our Pub Partners. The ongoing and planned investment program is also really exciting for everyone involved, and the product development and innovations we're introducing are setting us up for continued success in the future.
Finally, if you could give one piece of advice to the next generation of BDMs or pub operators, what would it be?
Enjoy what you do! This job is anything but routine—no two days are the same. Embrace the diversity of the environment and the people you work with. Support your Pub Partners with their business plans and take pleasure in the journey. One thing that’s always stuck with me is the importance of ‘walking the talk.’ To truly understand the market and the people you're working with, engage with them at different times, appoint the right person to the right pub, and by doing so, you’ll find that the business will run more smoothly.
